Comments on: The Express, Apologies, Dunblane and a Bloodthirsty Mob http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/200903/the-express-apologies-dunblane-and-a-bloodthirsty-mob/ ranting and rambling to anyone willing to listen Thu, 08 Mar 2012 17:40:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Shirley Bamber http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/200903/the-express-apologies-dunblane-and-a-bloodthirsty-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-287538 Shirley Bamber Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:55:20 +0000 http://www.thepickards.co.uk/?p=2146#comment-287538 Great details gratitude for expressing. In actual fact in all of the articles and reviews of this web site you will find there's something to educate yourself on. Great details gratitude for expressing. In actual fact in all of the articles and reviews of this web site you will find there’s something to educate yourself on.

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By: Heather http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/200903/the-express-apologies-dunblane-and-a-bloodthirsty-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-49528 Heather Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:59:26 +0000 http://www.thepickards.co.uk/?p=2146#comment-49528 The more I think about the whole thing the sicker it seems. What moral perversion in our society protects and defends a woman who stalked underage gunshot victims with the full intention of exploiting them as soon as they turned 18? The more I think about the whole thing the sicker it seems. What moral perversion in our society protects and defends a woman who stalked underage gunshot victims with the full intention of exploiting them as soon as they turned 18?

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By: Steve Whateley http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/200903/the-express-apologies-dunblane-and-a-bloodthirsty-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-49468 Steve Whateley Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:25:40 +0000 http://www.thepickards.co.uk/?p=2146#comment-49468 My aim is to try and get the Scottish Sunday Express closed down along with with its daily compatriot and its southern. No less will satisfy me. Lambie and Murray are symptomatic of an even sicker society. They represent all that is evil in journalism. My aim is to try and get the Scottish Sunday Express closed down along with with its daily compatriot and its southern. No less will satisfy me.
Lambie and Murray are symptomatic of an even sicker society. They represent all that is evil in journalism.

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By: EddieK http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/200903/the-express-apologies-dunblane-and-a-bloodthirsty-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-49011 EddieK Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:10:20 +0000 http://www.thepickards.co.uk/?p=2146#comment-49011 Hi JackP, I was pointed to your piece from another site, and made my criticisms back on that site. That was probably a bit rude, and I do apologise... I was going to wait until there were a few more comments on here first before wading in with my crap! Anyway, that being said... Yes, the orginal incident was highly offensive, and Mr Lambie is essentially the gatekeeper of what goes into the paper. His job would come with a level of responsibility linked in with experience and editorial judgement. It's part of his job. He is paid to do this. Unfortunately, you also have to balance this with the fact that sensationalist headlines sell papers (Dunblane! Dead Children! Drunken Teenage Yobbos!). Was the fact that this was let through down to a 'lapse of judgement'? By someone with his level of experience? (B*****cks it is - but that is just my own opinion.) Yes, there will be people in blogland who want the guy hung, drawn and quartered. There's also a lot of pointed discussion about the matter as well, from people without pickforks and flaming torches. Me? I wouldn't want his head on a pike. I wouldn't want him sacked. But I think apology is neccessary. What was offered was *not* an apology. Who is apologising (Mr. Lambie?) and for what? All hidden away in a pile of self aggrandisement. It's a textbook PR excercise, but it wasn't an apology. Are you confident that Mr Lambie actually recognises why the original article was offensive? To the point that he will be far more careful about it in future (if only to safeguard his job)? The problem I have with the whole 'Cultural Failure' defence is that it fails to address individual responsibility and is vague in meaning to the point where you have no handle how to improve the situation. It's got to start at the level of the individual, or nothing will change. I'd better go before my torch sets off the fire alarm.... Cheers, Eddie. Hi JackP,
I was pointed to your piece from another site, and made my criticisms back on that site. That was probably a bit rude, and I do apologise… I was going to wait until there were a few more comments on here first before wading in with my crap!

Anyway, that being said…

Yes, the orginal incident was highly offensive, and Mr Lambie is essentially the gatekeeper of what goes into the paper. His job would come with a level of responsibility linked in with experience and editorial judgement. It’s part of his job. He is paid to do this.
Unfortunately, you also have to balance this with the fact that sensationalist headlines sell papers (Dunblane! Dead Children! Drunken Teenage Yobbos!). Was the fact that this was let through down to a ‘lapse of judgement’? By someone with his level of experience?
(B*****cks it is – but that is just my own opinion.)

Yes, there will be people in blogland who want the guy hung, drawn and quartered. There’s also a lot of pointed discussion about the matter as well, from people without pickforks and flaming torches.
Me? I wouldn’t want his head on a pike. I wouldn’t want him sacked. But I think apology is neccessary. What was offered was *not* an apology. Who is apologising (Mr. Lambie?) and for what?
All hidden away in a pile of self aggrandisement.
It’s a textbook PR excercise, but it wasn’t an apology.
Are you confident that Mr Lambie actually recognises why the original article was offensive? To the point that he will be far more careful about it in future (if only to safeguard his job)?

The problem I have with the whole ‘Cultural Failure’ defence is that it fails to address individual responsibility and is vague in meaning to the point where you have no handle how to improve the situation. It’s got to start at the level of the individual, or nothing will change.

I’d better go before my torch sets off the fire alarm….

Cheers, Eddie.

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By: JackP http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/200903/the-express-apologies-dunblane-and-a-bloodthirsty-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-49009 JackP Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:49:00 +0000 http://www.thepickards.co.uk/?p=2146#comment-49009 For those of you disagreeing (or agreeing) with me, you may also wish to see the comments of people disagreeing with me in the <a href="http://whythatsdelightful.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/apology-noted-now-what/#div-comment-11145"" rel="nofollow">comments on Graham Linehan's article</a>. Still, at least unlike the <acronym title="Scottish Sunday Express">SSE</acronym>, we're all allowing people to publicly comment, eh? For those of you disagreeing (or agreeing) with me, you may also wish to see the comments of people disagreeing with me in the comments on Graham Linehan’s article.

Still, at least unlike the SSE, we’re all allowing people to publicly comment, eh?

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By: JackP http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/200903/the-express-apologies-dunblane-and-a-bloodthirsty-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-49005 JackP Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:15:47 +0000 http://www.thepickards.co.uk/?p=2146#comment-49005 Heather, I'm not saying that disciplinary action is <em>inappropriate</em>. What I do think is inappropriate is the assumption that this needs to be in the public gaze. I'm also not convinced Paula has a drinking problem. Like Tim implies on bloggerheads, if you take certain facebook posts out of context, you can get an incorrect and inappropriate image of someone. I'm sure I've said daft stuff I later regretted (on here as well as facebook, no doubt). I've certainly said daft, tongue-in-cheek stuff about drinking... I would however like to see the action against the Scottish Sunday Express from the PCC be effective. Ultimately it is the organisation which must take responsibility for the culture within it -- if Lambie and Murray are simply following (rather than leading) that culture, they should not be made scapegoats. Punishing the <em>paper</em> (in particular the proprietor's pocket) is to my mind more likely to effect a change... And you're right that the Fred vandalism is wrong. But it is the fact that he has been held up as a scapegoat which has <em>led</em> to him being targeted in that way. And I agree that most of the blogging the SSE thing has been fine and appropriate ... I'm not really disagreeing with you much, to be honest ... only that I think holding individuals up to public vilification is a bit <em>iffy</em>... Heather,
I’m not saying that disciplinary action is inappropriate. What I do think is inappropriate is the assumption that this needs to be in the public gaze.

I’m also not convinced Paula has a drinking problem. Like Tim implies on bloggerheads, if you take certain facebook posts out of context, you can get an incorrect and inappropriate image of someone. I’m sure I’ve said daft stuff I later regretted (on here as well as facebook, no doubt). I’ve certainly said daft, tongue-in-cheek stuff about drinking…

I would however like to see the action against the Scottish Sunday Express from the PCC be effective. Ultimately it is the organisation which must take responsibility for the culture within it — if Lambie and Murray are simply following (rather than leading) that culture, they should not be made scapegoats. Punishing the paper (in particular the proprietor’s pocket) is to my mind more likely to effect a change…

And you’re right that the Fred vandalism is wrong. But it is the fact that he has been held up as a scapegoat which has led to him being targeted in that way. And I agree that most of the blogging the SSE thing has been fine and appropriate … I’m not really disagreeing with you much, to be honest … only that I think holding individuals up to public vilification is a bit iffy

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By: Heather http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/200903/the-express-apologies-dunblane-and-a-bloodthirsty-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-49003 Heather Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:05:41 +0000 http://www.thepickards.co.uk/?p=2146#comment-49003 The problem with this argument is that Sharon Shoesmith and Fred Goodwin were at the top of very dysfunctional and backhanded organisations. They were not the personal instigators of the problem. Derek Lambie and Paula Murray *were* the personal instigators in this situation. In addition to sanctioning Paula Murray's stalker conduct and then giving her the front page, Derek Lambie seems to be the only boss left in the UK who does not sack an employee on the spot for publicly celebrating her drinking problem. He has not disciplined the employee for her embarassing conduct nor been held responsible for creating a work environment where staff are allowed to stalk people while under the influence. Why do you think that is? If we are to fix cultural failures, we have to start somewhere. It is entirely proper to call for disciplinary action. Fred Goodwin's house was vandalised this morning; <em>that</em> is the symptom of an aimless witchhunt braying for public execution. By contrast, the blogging on the Dunblane issue and the <a href="http://enemiesofreason.blogspot.com/2009/03/msm-stuck-in-dark-ages.html" rel="nofollow">subsequent discussion it's raised on journalism in general</a> is the most measured and intelligent thing I've read this year. The problem with this argument is that Sharon Shoesmith and Fred Goodwin were at the top of very dysfunctional and backhanded organisations. They were not the personal instigators of the problem. Derek Lambie and Paula Murray *were* the personal instigators in this situation. In addition to sanctioning Paula Murray’s stalker conduct and then giving her the front page, Derek Lambie seems to be the only boss left in the UK who does not sack an employee on the spot for publicly celebrating her drinking problem. He has not disciplined the employee for her embarassing conduct nor been held responsible for creating a work environment where staff are allowed to stalk people while under the influence. Why do you think that is?

If we are to fix cultural failures, we have to start somewhere. It is entirely proper to call for disciplinary action. Fred Goodwin’s house was vandalised this morning; that is the symptom of an aimless witchhunt braying for public execution. By contrast, the blogging on the Dunblane issue and the subsequent discussion it’s raised on journalism in general is the most measured and intelligent thing I’ve read this year.

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